fucking-amal.com

I think Moodysson was a bit of a xenophob though

I mean why are there no black or moslem kids anywhere to be found in the movie FÅ when you see them everywhere in real life?

Actually rather unrealistic if you ask me

Agnes&Elin Forever! wrote:I think Moodysson was a bit of a xenophob though

I mean why are there no black or moslem kids anywhere to be found in the movie FÅ when you see them everywhere in real life?

Actually rather unrealistic if you ask me

You aren't a teacher by any chance are you Magnus? The annoying one that sets out some simplistic statement with the catchall ''discuss?''

Just my own observations: take with the fact I've had an exhausting day at work.

Lukas is a ''Christian Socialist'' I have only met a few so ''self-professed'' in my life. Nice people, but delusional.

There is a very long interview (as I recall) on the Lilya DVD, in English with Lukas, at I think the National Film Theatre, London. He is very patient and polite with an ignorant and stupid interviewer. However he leaves an open goal in suggesting he is sympathetic to giving a voice to extreme-right opinions. I don't believe he is anything more than naieve. I don't think Alex or Bex would subscribe to his viewpoint.

Lilya in my opinion is a flawed masterpiece. Infused with religious schlock. Basically the subject was much better handled by other films at the time. Can’t recall the title but there was a very good BBC made for TV serial that followed the experience of two Moldovan sisters. Totally shredded the fantasy of Lilya, a Christian Socialist wankoff.

I have said this before, but FA is ‘naturalistic’ rather than ‘realistic’. Water Lilies took this to extremis. 2007 and the kids in a middle-class suburb of Paris don’t have access to mobile phones, let alone computers? It’s about the ‘timeless’ issues of finding love and expereincing betrayal, not about technology. No Algerians although there are some peripheral ethnic prescences.

I don’t know sufficient about Amal in 1998. I have compared it before with Clay Cross or Matlock in Derbyshire, maybe 0.2% ethnic minority (even now) while the larger cities to North and South this figure is nearer 25%.

I am not a naieve apologist for concentrations of immigration. Somali (notably not Commonwealth ex-pat Muslims) Islamic fundamentalists have sufficient clout to get local (City) primary schoods to ban music, dancing and Christmas. Would FA get an airing in sex education classes? Like fuck it would. Put it this way, about as much chance as it would in getting a showing in a school in Christo-fundamentalist Alabama in the USA.
So to return to your proposition.

Lukas a xenophobe? No. Twat? Yes. But FA is in the ‘naturalistic’ not the ‘realistic’ tradition. Lukas had it right in that it about class differences as much as sexuality, and that is closely observed in the differing reactions of Brigitte and Agnes bitch-mother.

SML2 if it ever gets made will be about the relationship between the newcomer Ajuna, prosperous, educated middle class Asian immigrant and Elina dispossessed offspring of East European immigrant car-washers. The issues WON’T be about race, politics, religion or even homosexuality but about human need to rise above the situation, to explore in young peoples terms, the meaning of the phrase ‘SHOW ME LOVE’.

No I'm not a teacher

And I still think FÅ is unrealistic in this respect

The only mention of immigrant kids is when Elin and her sister talks about Elin wanting to be with an italian, but the one she's just been in love with (yesterday) came from Bosnia

But you don't see a single one in the film, only native Swedish kids and maybe Finnish Camilla

Agnes&Elin Forever! wrote:No I'm not a teacher

And I still think FÅ is unrealistic in this respect

The only mention of immigrant kids is when Elin and her sister talks about Elin wanting to be with an italian, but the one she's just been in love with (yesterday) came from Bosnia

But you don't see a single one in the film, only native Swedish kids and maybe Finnish Camilla

I agree to some extent. Camilla by her surname is of Finnish descent. I don't believe that is an accident but is a side-issue set up by Lukas. Itls like the concept of ''British'' . She is more desperate to ''fit in'' than others around her. For me, I'm English. I love the people and traditions of Southern Ireland. I hate the narrow sectarianism of Northern Ireland and their Christo-fascist relationships to the Orange tradition of the Apartheid regime in South Africa. Like maybe some in Finland concerning Sweden, they ''demand the right to be British'' I have Welsh and Scottish friends but always regard England as more akin to France and the Benelux countries.

Anyway. Not sure you have grasped my essential point here about the difference between ''naturalism'' and ''realism'' in the context of flim-making.

Maybe take class at Komvux? Who knows who you might meet there

So I have not "grasped your essential point"

I just disagree with you

Agnes&Elin Forever! wrote:So I have not "grasped your essential point"

I just disagree with you

And that comes about because we live in relatively ''liberal democracies'' . We couldn't be having this open debate in Iran or Nigeria, without State interference.

TBH I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with? I am totally confirming the points that you made. I don't disagree for a minute. All I'm asking you to do is consider the diffrence between ''naturalism'' and ''realism'' in making a film.

Nothing wrong with ''realism''. For example in the French film ''Baise-Moi'' there are no body doubles, no simulation. When the characters fuck they really do fuck for real. But that is the whole point. It isn't really erotic and isn't pornographic either. The story is VERY real. The lead actors are FORMER porn film stars and the co-director is a FORMER porn movie director. It is about the developing relationship between the female protagonists and is very ANTI-porn. The irony is, that for years it was classified by the French (unlike everywhere else in Europe) as fit for showing only in private porn-film clubs.

In ''real-life'' neither Alex nor Bex are ''gay''. Even the screen portrayals confound stereotype. Agnes isn't a dungaree wearing, roll your own ciggies, grease monkey. She's a lonely alienated girl in search of unconditional affection. Elin isn't anything other than a fantasist in search of some escape from the dullness of her reality and 'life-chances'.

''Naturalism'' goes to the core of the issues and doesn't get bogged-down in having to cross every t and dot every i, even if that means that it is not a 100% reflection of ''reality''.

SML is ''naturalistic''. Of course it takes liberties with ''real life'' to drill down to the ''core issues''.

TBH is it really about lesbianism or bisexual attraction? That is the medium of the story but I don't think it's the message.

It is a youthful ''allegory'' of love reaching across boundaries, of race, class, sex, background, whatever. ''Pushing'' the boundaries, self-discovery, testing the limits of faithfulness in a social milieu more quick to condemn than to understand. Attempting to answer the unanswerable ''I feel this way about you. You feel this way about me. How far are we prepared to test this?'' ''Am I prepared to risk my existing loyalties, family, friends, school, social reputation to take a risk on you?'' A madcap adventure, part of the ''rights of passage'' when two kindred spirits interlock, boister each other's madly misaligned feelings into a confluent urge to ''go to Stockholm''. Hedonistic rush of fantasy which meets its ''coming of age'' in the realisation of both parties, that to move forward requires some kind of commitment.

FFS it ends up in drinking chocolate! how ''realistic'' is that

Mangus, I am pleased you disagree with me, because it challenges me to re-examine my own interpretations.

I only click on this thread to look at photos of Alex.

Agnes&Elin Forever! wrote:...why are there no black or moslem kids anywhere to be found in the movie FÅ when you see them everywhere in real life?

Not much I know, but I would have thought the girl to Agnes' right qualifies as having a heritage from the Sub-Continent.

The last thing I'd like to see anywhere in the world is for casting to be done on a "racial quota" system. Don't know what the ethnic make-up of Sweden, Trollhättan or even Åmål is, or if Lukas has failed the quota system, but "frankly my dears, I don't give a damn." I just love this film.

Ian wrote:I only click on this thread to look at photos of Alex.

Back on topic boss.

That's more like it.

And very well said too.

fish wrote:Just thinking mind.
You've been a bit quiet lately....... Alex has been out of sight lately.......
Hmmmmmm
You see where I'm heading here?
Any connection between these two occurrences?

What's wrong with taking a little trip to Paris, with no harm in mind? And who I brought with me?

Oh, you'd like to know that, huh?

There's just been a lot of things going on in my life recently, and prioroties have had to be made... But don't think you're rid of me yet

We wouldn't want to be, triddy.

Ian wrote:We wouldn't want to be, triddy.

Absolutely.


(Though some pics would be nice. )

C'mon Alex, time for you to get out and about again.